The Overland and it's future.

[Morgan Flyer]

Maybe they could use cleaner locos up front. Many times there has been a filthy dirty NR on the front (is this being deliberately done?), especially the first service using the newly refurbished cars.

The loco is usually the first thing on the train that gets seen by the public, so, let's make it a clean loco to match the clean carriages.

Are there plans to paint any NRs for The Overland?

[witsend]

None that I am aware.

It does look good when a Ghan or an IP locomotive hauls it. Think the best one was AN3 hauling it

[TRANZIT JIM]

On the topic of 'open ended' cars, Seymour Railway Heritage Center have two, and they use two on most of their trips.

They are somewhat very popular, and are something of a reason why many want to travel on their trains.

They also have the round/closed ended parlor car which they use in place of one of the open ended ones from time to time.

[secret agent]

These open observation cars are popular every where they are used , there is one on that fancy train that travels now on the old Burma railway and there are others around the world. An old coach or something could have the end furthest away from the entrance door cut down to the bottom of the windows and a open area made for those that desire a bit of fresh air in safety, bars or something across openings would deter people from putting parts of their anatomy outside of the train. They could even take a leaf out of the AK cars and put in full length windows on an car that travels on the end of the train. The motorail and power cars could be put at the front if needed with just a little more work needed at terminating stations.

I would have thought that GSR by now would have something similar on it's trains for the tourist's to use!

[robbie1203]

I actually think that the open observation deck on any long distance passenger train is a brilliant concept and i am glad i raised the issue in an earlier posting.
It could be a nightmare for the operators with insurance and security requirements now in place.

An open deck observation deck type car could be used as an attraction for sporting groups and such who want the trip to be part of the clubs activities etc.Getting there is half the fun type of thing!
I would expect that the user(s) would have to pay the operator(s) for security personnel to be on hand....for all the obvious reasons and much like your local hotel on week-ends now.

I think the concept has possibilities and needs to be investigated as to whether it is feasible or not.

Food for thought i guess!

[Morgan Flyer]

I actually think that the open observation deck on any long distance passenger train is a brilliant concept and i am glad i raised the issue in an earlier posting.
It could be a nightmare for the operators with insurance and security requirements now in place.

An open deck observation deck type car could be used as an attraction for sporting groups and such who want the trip to be part of the clubs activities etc.Getting there is half the fun type of thing!
I would expect that the user(s) would have to pay the operator(s) for security personnel to be on hand....for all the obvious reasons and much like your local hotel on week-ends now.

I think the concept has possibilities and needs to be investigated as to whether it is feasible or not.

Food for thought i guess!

A great idea! - Try doing that on a bus!

[secret agent]

If the open sections have bars, mesh or something over the openings then there should be no risk of safety breaches that way, if they thought that this was a bit too hard then simply rebuild an end of a coach like an AK car with large windows on the ends and a lot more larger windows on the sides, then you would have no safety problems at all and still have a fully air conditioned observation car at the rear of the train. You could also make a car like this the same at both ends so you did not have to turn the car at all, simply place it on the other end of the train, the side access door would need to be moved towards the centre though but it could be done!

[robbie1203]

In my opinion G.S.R. have done all they can to improve the "Overland" service and with in their financial constraints.
They cannot improve the time-table too much and they cannot provide better scenery from the saloon car seat.After you leave the Adelaide Hills the views are generally mundane for the remainder of the journey.
The comfort factor in the cars is more than adequate and far superior to an aircraft seat...but the train takes 9 hours longer!

If the "Overland" service was a sleeper train and overnight it would not matter if it took 13 hours and the passing scenery of no relevance Ha!

If it is to remain a daylight service then it probably needs a selling point and an open deck style car may do the trick.
It will take a brave G.S.R. person to introduce such a novelty i guess.

[MarkWaller]

If the "Overland" service was a sleeper train and overnight it would not matter if it took 13 hours and the passing scenery of no relevance Ha!
If it is to remain a daylight service then it probably needs a selling point and an open deck style car may do the trick.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Overland has been in its current format (daylight journey in both directions, three times a week) for at least the last four years, and I'm not aware that GSR want to make any changes to this. I would presume, therefore, that GSR have found some market niches in which the Overland can be successful:
- passengers travelling between Adelaide and Melbourne who are not in a hurry and are willing to pay for more comfort than on a coach;
- passengers from intermediate stations, who may well not have the option of flying at all.

If the Overland reverted to running overnight, I would expect that the demand from intermediate stations would be substantially reduced, almost certainly without any corresponding increase in demand for end-to-end travel.

An open-deck car of some sort on the Overland might be nice, but I'm not sure that the scenery justifies having one, in the way that it does on the two South Island routes in New Zealand. I think it would be a fairly expensive conversion from any of GSR's current vehicles, and I doubt that the various safety authorities would be very happy with it.

Overall, I suspect GSR's current approach to the Overland is, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" - and they don't think it's broke.

[robbie1203]

I am sure that G.S.R. will adopt the "steady as she goes" attitude also.The "Overland" service is satisfactory and does fill many folks travel requirements.I can never imagine that they will revert back to a heavy sleeper (overnight) train ever again.
With Adelaide-Melbourne budget style air fares no rail service will ever be competitive for the business dollar...and not forgetting the time factor.

The scenery between the two cities does not justify an open deck type car,however,it may induce some ,who do not like to be "locked " in for 10+ hours.They can stretch their legs and smell the Roses..sorry..the Diesel Fumes!
Australians love their outdoor settings at home and at the "local" during the better weather and the open deck type car may be an attraction for some.

It will probably never happen,but it is an interesting discussion point never the less.To be fair to G.S.R it would be a risky venture in many ways and they are not risk takers which is understandable.

As i have already posted there would be sporting groups/clubs etc that would embrace this concept however whether the numbers would stack up in the long term is an unknown quantity.....and G.S.R are not going to chance it either...who can blame them!

[secret agent]

If they built these cars and left the name boards off, of them they could really be used on any service even the Southern Spirit, the whole concept would be a good one in the right weather of course. It would take a remarshling of the cars in the consist though, but that would not matter that much really! Just the car carriers and power cars put on the front of the train for the scenic parts of a trip!

[robbie1203]

It may be operationally easier to forget the end platform configuration and just have an open deck type car within the general consist.That would mean that the open deck type car could be marshaled anywhere and would be a normal walk through carriage..same as any other.
You could call it the "Patio Car" or something similar
Without name-plates this carriage could be trialled or used with any long distance service.It would be marvelous in the top end of Australia with the "Ghan" services.
Just expanding some ideas.

[secret agent]

The only problem with that idea Robbie1203 is that passengers and staff would have to walk through a near open car in inclement weather to get access to other cars, the idea is good but that kind of car would be better on the ends where access to other cars is really not needed. Just a thought not a criticism !

[robbie1203]

The only problem with that idea Robbie1203 is that passengers and staff would have to walk through a near open car in inclement weather to get access to other cars, the idea is good but that kind of car would be better on the ends where access to other cars is really not needed. Just a thought not a criticism !

Fair comment!
It would not be a major problem for on-train staff but some passengers may object..i agree!
Placing this type of car (strategically) in a 20/25 car Ghan or IP consist may also prove difficult.With the Overland it could be placed first or last,depending on the way of travel etc.
The other option is to have a passage way configuration,but that would only allow viewing from one side of the train.
In summary...it is an interesting topic but i doubt that it would ever be considered by the relevant operators and we are not being paid the consultancy fee.

[kipioneer]

There is such a carriage on the TranzAlpine train in New Zealand.

It is mid-train from memory.

Pictures at the man from seat 61 page.

by the way this is a great website for planning railway trips overseas - or even just dreaming